The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

Scott Drake

Sat Jul 05 14:28:24 -0700 2008

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Yes, drugs can be nice.

Personally, I'm pretty pleased with the state that my brain has been in for the past few years. Seems like it's working better than ever, so I have avoided taking psychedelics.

Not that I'm against using them.

Ritualistically hitting the reset button on yer brain may negate the positive effects, though - at least in my personal experience. And I seem to be running a surplus of altruism, no spiritualism needed.

making the case

zogger

Sat Jul 05 17:03:18 -0700 2008

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Some of the larger questions might revolve around when is it ritual and spiritual and for positive mental health reasons as opposed to entertainment, an internal chemical boob toob? Having come of age in the 60s I can distinctly remember quite a bit of the latter, and although a lot of talk was thrown at it, very little of the former. I've seen a lot more "partying" than "evolving" going on.

making the case

Scott Drake

Sat Jul 05 18:25:35 -0700 2008

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It may or may not surprise you that things have not changed that much. ;)

I meant "repeatedly" when I said "ritualistically"... Sorry.

On the whole, I'm pretty bored with the partying, at least in my corner of the planet. I like the "internal chemical boob toob" line, btw.

It could just be me, but I feel a strange wave of atavism crashing over the states, fueled by psychedelics and parties the size of small cities. Bums me the f*** out, honestly.

making the case

zogger

Sat Jul 05 20:50:36 -0700 2008

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I think overall in today's society plain old alcohol is still the worst abused drug that causes the most problems, short term or long term, but the most understandable why this is so. People's lives are crap in a lot of ways and alkyhaul makes it go away temporarily.

the three lawful narcotics

rubycodez

Sun Jul 06 10:20:35 -0700 2008

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could make a case for tobacco as number two  causing huge problems  long term and body count that are expensive for society, since I've never been a smoker don't quite understand why after something stressful the smokers need their mild "upper" and why so often high strung people (in places I've worked the majority of the marketing and sales wanks and execs) are  smokers.

 

Drinking for problems, not a good solution, in the range of somewhat to rather drunk it makes the problems seems worse and brings on a personal pity party.   To go beyond that to "falling down drunk" on a regular basis where the fixation of what's left of consciousness is mostly on the present brings major harm to the body, that's really a small percentage of the people I know who drink but nevertheless I've some friend and family who do that more than once a month.

 

Then there's the third lawfully accepted mood altering substance, the caffeine, favored by laid back and high strung people alike, I use a jolt of that to get going in the morning but none after noon or it bothers my night of sleep. but I suspect caffeine addiction a large factor in the migraine headache problems people have.

 

So you can mess up or kill yourself with society's approval with at least two of these three and take all the caffeine you want, but take anything outside of the three and in the USA you're a f-ing hippie or junkie and unfit to hold public office or be executive.

the three lawful narcotics

Thomas Lord

Sun Jul 06 11:14:01 -0700 2008

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I've never been a smoker don't quite understand why after something stressful the smokers need their mild "upper" and why so often high strung people (in places I've worked the majority of the marketing and sales wanks and execs) are smokers.

"They say" it's two-fold: if you are mildly addicted or habituated to it then it satisfies a craving. The sales folks could, by that mechanism, switch to chocolate ice cream or beer and have a similar effect, although the nicotine, by way of going through your lungs, is essentially injected intravenously so the effects are almost immediate. (The stomach route takes considerably longer.) The other thing is that it triggers a dopamine release so it is one of many variants on soma, in that regard.

I think the demonization of tobacco is quite exaggerated. Like most drugs, it's not good for kids. Like most, excessive use is bad for you. Other than that, it's pretty good.

First exposure is sort of funny, though. If you've never, ever smoked -- and you hope to never smoke -- and you haven't had a lot of "second hand" -- choke down as much as you can of a good cigar in a short period of time. After you're done puking (or being convinced your about to for an interminable period) you'll have an aversion to it that lasts for a while.

but take anything outside of the three and in the USA you're a f-ing hippie or junkie and unfit to hold public office or be executive

That's changing as the demographics of voters change, e.g., c.f. Obama.

-t

the three lawful narcotics

rubycodez

Sun Jul 06 12:20:38 -0700 2008

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I think the demonization of tobacco is quite exaggerated

for being the leading cause of death in the world with ten million deaths a year, maybe not.  And with the huge increase in smoking in undeveloped countries, WHO predicts death rate for 21st century will be ten times that.

but I only give a crap to the extent it costs me money or I get airways/sinuses irratated or eyes dried.   so glad smokers have to step outside now to do their stinky thing at workplace and most restaurants.

 

I expect Obama will get more heat from chemical use after nomination by hypocrites.

The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

Simon

Sat Jul 05 17:26:50 -0700 2008

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I think welcoming the idea that a drug can warp your perception many years after it is taken is itself warped.

Surely responsible drug use would only involve drugs that have a short term effect after administration, unless it was for correcting a specific problem (when single treatments may be better).

The terminally ill can easily make do with a steady supply of short term acting drugs, they aren't generally going to need them for long.

Where you see users reporting "being with god", it suggests it is reinforcing existing delusional belief systems, it might make them feel good, but we aren't short of recreational drugs that make people feel good without affecting their long term judgement for the worse.

The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

ehrichweiss

Sat Jul 05 17:38:56 -0700 2008

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I've been saying this for years. I have a yearly ritual of taking psilocybin and cleaning out excess garbage in my mind. I have recently begun supplementing with salvia divinorum because it has a mood elevating effect that lasts for several days though according to some, only a real shaman can take it because the hallucinations aren't always nice. The truth isn't always pleasant afterall. Regardless, I've got about as much experience journeying inside my mind that Tim Leary and Terence McKenna would be proud so some scary stuff doesn't even affect me these days.

The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

Verteiron

Sat Jul 05 18:59:03 -0700 2008

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I've considered acquiring some Salvia divinorum for some time now, and I waited just long enough to make it much harder on myself. The stuff was outlawed in Illinois on January 1st.

The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

ehrichweiss

Sat Jul 05 19:02:34 -0700 2008

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Yeah, I grow it so even if they outlaw it, they're never going to know what to look for and it's not like I'm selling it so they don't have any hope of doing anything about my personal use of it.

The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

Spider

Sat Jul 05 20:04:26 -0700 2008

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Whats wrong with a bit of "weed" and a handy bong?

The Lasting Benefits of Psilocybin Therapy

ehrichweiss

Sat Jul 05 22:21:18 -0700 2008

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Nothing.

reality check

Thomas Lord

Sun Jul 06 01:54:06 -0700 2008

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Let me start by saying that, as Hendrix put it, yes I'm experienced.

And I kinda like having the experience under my belt.

And, I know an (armchair status, amateur, but far from random) thing or two about what these drugs do psychologically. And, I can state it without too much mumbo-jumbo.

(a) Don't.

(b) Ok, you're determined and shall anyway: let's talk about what you're in for.

The basic subjective effects of shrooms and LSD are similar and twofold:

(1) Sensory and emotional overload such that you will not be able to keep up a coherent train of thought for more than a moment or two (during the height of the experience).

(2) A pervasive, underlying feeling, throughout, is that everything you are experiencing is somehow very significant.

That's about all they do, though they do it in particularly obnoxious ways (described below). Everything else is what is called, in the trade, "set and setting." That is, the ultimate meaning and outcome of your experience depends on the mindset you manage to have during this experience ("set") and the environmental stimuli you have feeding into that ("setting").

Because everything is perceived as very profound, these are therapeutic power tools. One hard problem for therapists to crack is to get a patient to concentrate on issues at hand but if the setting contains reminders of those issues and the (mind-)set is receptive to them, the overwhelming emotional impact of the (artificial) profundity of the experience gives the therapist 4-6 hours of uninterrupted concentration. The patient couldn't alone focus that way but, in the right setting, with the right set, that's what happens. (The hippies who do successfully do it on their own are very careful about set and setting. They know how to be their own therapists, mostly. Don't be confused, though -- especially if you are young -- you can easily meet "seemingly-well-adjusted" hippies who partake a lot or partook a lot who, upon closer examination, um, have issues.)

Here is the problem: that pervasive underlying feeling that everything you experience is very profound, combined with the sensory and emotional overload that prevents your keeping a coherent train of thought on your own -- well, um, that is known in the trade as a psychotic breakdown. It is the stuff of the worst-crazy street people you see. Honest and for true. You will be in about the same mental state as them. Difference is, yours will wear off, mostly, in 12 hours and you brought it on yourself. The street folk, their brains just happen to have wound up doing that all by themselves. Other than that, you're the same.

Before the word psychedelic was coined a common term for these drugs was "psychotomimetic" which, from greek roots basically means "something that mimics psychosis". Psychotomimetic is a much more accurate term.

It is the form and function of these drugs to make you crazy, for a limited time. To see "god" in everything. Whether or not that is a productive experience or a destructive one depends on set, setting (and, according to the experts, frequency of use -- more than a little is certainly not good).

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That much said I hope you draw at least the basic conclusion that these are not drugs to be taking at every party, etc. People do that. At my age, quite glad I didn't go in for it quite that heavy for more than a very short period, and looking around at my same age peers -- I can say: when you are 42, you'll be glad if you aren't one of the ones that went in heavily for a long time as a youth. Yes, it really does seem to burn people out.

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That said, let's talk pot. Now, I happen to love pot. I'm also a lightweight and can't take anything but minor amounts (used to be heavier but that didn't last long). I like it because I can have a puff or two and (a) not want more right away -- I'm one of the minority with a cap on how far I accelerate use / build+overcome tolerance. (b) It helps me concentrate (in small, occasional amounts) -- I come, in part, from a certain kind of high-strung lot and it tempers that much more effectively and beneficially than alcohol. (c) It is, for me and others like me, like a helium balloon. I can let the string slip through my fingers pretty far and the balloon floats way up there... woo hoo... but if a task is before me, it's trivial enough to pull down on that string and grasp the balloon firmly in hand. The buzz I and people like me get off pot is easy to kill, perhaps partly because we don't like more than a little bit at a time.

A good 1/3-1/2 of pot smokers I've met are not like that and should mostly not be using the drug at all except on rare occasions when their goal is to "get wasted". It doesn't help them concentrate. They will build tolerance and just want more. It makes them goofy and dumb and emotionally stupid too. And they can't pull down the balloon to save their lives. Different physiology and wrong drug for them.

I sing the qualified praises of pot here to contrast it with shrooms and LSD. No human in the world can truly "pull down the balloon" with those drugs. They simply mimic psychosis. That is all that they do. Shrooms don't last as long and the particular flavor of psychosis is somewhat more palatable, in my experience, but both of them are harsh, very strong, not-toys, drugs. Pot is no worse than beer and for a subset of users, distinctly beneficial.

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If you are a kid -- I mean, especially if you are a kid -- thinking about taking your first experiences with any of the three: pot, shrooms, lsd: I have a couple suggestions. (a) delay. (b) while delaying, improve your diet -- get real healthy by cutting out junk food, snacks, and crap generally -- get a real healthy diet with lots of nutrients. (c) exercise a lot -- doesn't have to mean pumping iron to build muscle or running marathons, just moderate, steady, strength-building exercise -- get all "lean and mean". (d) When (if) you do partake for the first time, make sure you pay a lot of attention to whether it really feels good in a way you want to keep going or whether it feels good just cause its exciting.

Again, "(a) delay" is a good place to start. As much as I like pot, even, I've never seen anyone who started below 20 that I thought it was good for. The others, shrooms and LSD...

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If you definitely want to do some psychotomimentic -- avoid LSD. I don't know why exactly. It lasts too long and it is just, somehow, too harsh. It's just somehow *wrong*.

Shrooms last less long and there is a lot of traditional culture behind them (oh, the stories I could tell about some surprising occasional shroom-eaters :-)

They can make you a touch nauseous which, somehow, seems importantly appropriate.

It's a gentler, fuzzier, more obvious kind of psychosis that shrooms invoke. It's easier to remember where you are and why and that you'll be obligated to come back.

LSD -- not so much. You can have a good experience with it but, without expert clinical guidance I'd say that most of the acid these days, is, well, the brown acid, not the blue, that is to say, not specifically good.

-t

reality check

Michael Smith

Sun Jul 06 05:00:06 -0700 2008

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that pervasive underlying feeling that everything you experience is very profound, combined with the sensory and emotional overload that prevents your keeping a coherent train of thought on your own -- well, um, that is known in the trade as a psychotic breakdown. It is the stuff of the worst-crazy street people you see. Honest and for true. You will be in about the same mental state as them. Difference is, yours will wear off, mostly, in 12 hours and you brought it on yourself.

I got exactly that from a CT scan in 1985. They gave me an IV which I presume contained some sort of dye. Maybe it didn't help that I was first in the machine for the day and the nurse who hooked me up had apparently been up all night on personal business. Maybe they forgot to check the label on the bottle.

Now I won't touch drugs at all. Temporal lobe epliepsy is exciting enough and I am glad for it not to be an issue any more. But I reckon that if there are configuration changes to be made I can do it entirely in software.