Climate change, the human perspective.

Sat Jul 05 04:12:00 -0700 2008
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I can remember my dad telling me that when he was a boy, growing up in Cornwall in the 1930's and 40's, the climate was different, there were colder winters and hotter summers... I know in my lifetime the climate here in the south west of England has changed too, lately "summer" seems to be the odd hot week separated by long periods of overcast and the odd very wet week. In April we had snow, just last week in June we had hailstones.

So while it isn't getting warmer hereabouts, as in "Global Warming", it is getting wetter, and perhaps more moderate with less extremes between winter and summer, the seasons are more bland and mixed, and the plants appear to be reflecting this change too.

Here in the south-west generally speaking most of our "weather" comes in off the Atlantic. In the past cold winters were caused by our weather coming from the cold north easterlies, and hot summers were caused by the Azores high building up and stabilising for several weeks, and hot southerlies off the med and sahara.

In the past summer thunderstorms could deposit incredibly fine red sand from the sahara, we haven't seen that for more than a decade at least.

The significant part about most of our weather coming in off the Atlantic was this, there are no cities, no croplands, no modern concreted over drainage channels or anything like that at play here, the Atlantic today presents the same interface as the Atlantic 1,000 years ago.

In the USA it is fairly common for the public to follow the jet stream, here in Europe this is quite uncommon, instead we watch highs and lows and pressure charts, the trusty barometer is still a better indicator of weather than the milti-million pound met office computers in their new home just up the road.

We used to say, when the met office was based in Bracknell near(ish) London that the weather forcast consisted of ringing up some guy in Cornwall and asking him to look out the window, and then forecasting that for London. Now that the met office has moved here to Exeter it appears they simply look out of their own windows, and forecast that for London, and London is the centre of the universe innit.

So in 30+ adult years of watching the pressure charts, I am aware of a change, you don't get the big, stationary, long lasting highs deflecting the lows into different paths any more, most of the lows just sweep across from west to east more or less, and thanks to the moderating effect of the sea and also not having to "fight" highs they all seem to be pretty much the same, with a main structure about a thousand miles across and the front systems they carry being a fairly well wound up spiral which of course means it is mainly an occluded front (off the ground) with the spilt to warm and then cold fronts happening right out at the periphery of the system.

Obviously there is a danger here in treating 30 odd years of first hand experience plus another 40 or 50 years of second hand experience as being significant enough a sample to give an accurate indication of long term trends... Exeter has 2,000 years of history and historically speaking there have been periods of everything, hotter, drier, colder, wetter, it has all come and gone.

Now the new met office just up the road tries to model all this, and they have powerful computers to crunch the numbers with, usually in the top ten in the world, and yet the actual accuracy of the forecasts is no better than the inception of atlantic weather buoys which allowed us to create realtime pressure charts, which the human eye could extrapolate as well as anything else.

Now we can talk all we like about man made effects on climate, sunspot activity, the wandering magnetic field and periodic inversions of same, volcanism, and so on, but the fact is that it is a BIG system, it has an awful lot of momemtum, it has an awful lot of inputs, it has an awful lot of factors, it is in fact a pretty good example of a truly chatoic system.

I say a truly chaotic system rather than a chaos system, because mathematical and therefore computer models of chaos systems tend to work with stuff like Lorenz attractors or a butterfly flapping its wings in Tibet 1,000 years ago.

In the truly chaotic system there are billions of butterflies flapping their wings every day of the past 1,000 years, there is solar wind, local solar system gravitic changes, the wandering magnetic core, oh, and of course the effects of human civilisation.

The best model for the climate is the one nature is running in real time, and in statistical terms the most sophisticated computer models have no more value than my own personal anecdotal observations, the dollar value and man year value of the met office predictions gives them more weight, but statistically they are no more significant than my own, and practically my own projections based upon the Atlantic pressure charts and a decent barometer are significantly more accurate.

But the biggest issue, whatever is driving climate change, is momentum, not just of the weather system itself, but also of whatever is driving it. If I could press a magic button and eliminate 99.99% of the world population in the next 28 days with some zombie virus, it isn't going to either stop or alter the dynamic that is already built into the chaotic system.

Man is not affecting solar sunspot activity, or the migration of the magnetic pole, which is why "climate change" is not purely an Earth phenomenon. It is happening elsewhere in the solar system.

Sure, by definition we must be having some sort of effect, but beyond the local heat islands of cities and forest clearing for agriculture and so forth, how significant are these effects in the grand scheme of things?

Unless the human effect is sufficient to be a catalyst then attempts to prevent climate change but effect the entire solar system, unless the human effect is catalytic then we cannot "fix" the climate here without simultaneously "fixing" the climate of Mars, Venus, etc.

If the human effect is sufficient to be a catalyst then we can "fix" the problem locally here on Earth alone.

SO we have a binary situation, and the two options are both sub-sets of one action.

If the human effect is sufficient to be a catalyst then we are literally talking about Terraforming or, in other words, Planetary Engineering.

If the human effect is insufficient to be a catalyst then we are literally talking about Solar Engineering, shaping entire solar systems to our own desires.

Both of these, to be practical, require the imposition of order, in other words a PLAN, upon a chaotic system, and yet our actual capabilities at this time are that mankind is itself a chaotic system, and so if we are to even hope to address "man made climate change" we must first, by definition, take absolute control of mankind himself.

This isn't hegemony on a global scale, it is more like empire on a global scale.

Someone, or some thing (eg a computer) will have to be Emperor, with an end to all political and social freedoms and choices, which includes all monetary and business freedoms too.

The Borg.

The Borg Emperor cannot, by definition, have any power greater than the sum of the parts that make up the Empire, the power of the Empire comes from the ability to direct, totally, that sum of power.

The power to command everyone in the Empire to stand on something 12 inches high, and then, at the stroke of midday Empire Standard Time, jump down to the ground.

Or the power to turn on every electrical applicance, or turn them off.

You can have a chaotic system, or you can have a directed system. Grabbing a part of a chaotic system and imposing direction upon it does not make it any less of a chaotic system, any more predicatable, any more controllable, any more directed.

Sure, human beings have an effect upon the chaotic system that is climate, but the effect we do have is also chaotic, and therefore less likely to create a "disturbance in the force" than if we were directed like the Borg. We cannot have directed effects without first sacrificing our chaotic nature to the Borg Emperor. The cure is worse than the disease.

There are abundant classic proofs of this.

Some 70% of the atmosphere we breathe is Nitrogen.

When you draw atmospheric gas into an internal combustion engine you are therefore drawing in 70% Nitrogen.

The more efficient you wish to make the internal combustion engine the hotter you make the combustion process for that particular fuel, an IC engine just converts heat to motion, and a jet turbine is an IC engine too.

The hotter you make the combustion process the more readily that 70% Nitrogen inside the combustion chamber gets chemically converted to nitrous compounds, a.k.a. "pollution".

So one the one hand the directed attempt to make internal combustion engines less "damaging" to the environment is working.

On the other hand this directed attempt is guaranteeing that engines are less efficient than they could be, and damaging the environment in other ways, ways that will in the long run do more damage than controls imposed saved.

So, Planetary Engineering is out of our league, what is left? Where is the motivation for all the caterwauling about man made climate change?

If it isn't the stated goals, and they are out of our league, then the only thing left is method, and the method is by definition imposing directed control over a chaotic system, and since this chaotic system is humanity, then the directed control is more commonly known colloquially as a "power trip".

So, every time anyone opens their mouth and starts talking about climate, they are talking about power and control over other human beings.

If democracy is two wolves and one sheep deciding what to have for lunch, power and control is factions in the military-industrial complex and proles deciding what is best to further widen the power gap.

When our "leaders" talk about climate change they may as well be talking about "The Jewish Problem", because they are talking about the same thing, imposing power and control and eliminating that essential human characteristic, chaos, also known as individuality and freedom.

Borg doesn't care.

Sat Jul 05 08:53:47 -0700 2008
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oh, we've had the Borg for awhile,  just not interested in silly distractions like solving environmental or welfare problems.  Only interest is transfers and control of wealth and getting piece of the action.  I'm speaking of course of western central banking system and certain allied megacorps.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sat Jul 05 09:50:53 -0700 2008
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huh?

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sat Jul 05 12:47:54 -0700 2008
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  • Your zombie virus would have a rather dramatic effect.
  • "Now the new met office just up the road tries to model all this, and they have powerful computers to crunch the numbers with, usually in the top ten in the world, and yet the actual accuracy of the forecasts is no better than the inception of atlantic weather buoys which allowed us to create realtime pressure charts, which the human eye could extrapolate as well as anything else." Demonstrably false. Your Met (which I hold in the highest regard) helps us yanks out every Atlantic hurricane season. Eyeballs suck at this. Additionally, you are confusing weather and climate.
  • You're mistaken about solar activity being the main cause of climate change, and by extension you are wrong about climate change being a solar system scale phenomenon that we are powerless to change. World Radiation Center observations.
  • "[...] in statistical terms the most sophisticated computer models have no more value than my own personal anecdotal observations." *Ahem*. Unlikely. Also, you're confusing weather and climate again. If what you say is true, I think you might qualify for the James Randi prize.
  • "Sure, by definition we must be having some sort of effect, but beyond the local heat islands of cities and forest clearing for agriculture and so forth, how significant are these effects in the grand scheme of things?" Did you ignore emissions on purpose?

The rest seems to fall in to this category: [Technocrat comment], option five.

While it's true that this is a totally dumbed-down mag with generally cheesy futurist stories, New Scientist has a good article which addresses your issues point by point, with links to some real science. Apologies if you've already seen it.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sat Jul 05 17:26:57 -0700 2008
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"with links to some real science" 

I take it then that these links don't include "meteorology" which as a "science" has long been known to be "imperfect".  It is not "black and white" and there is a huge amount of grey. What is "real" science with regard to weather and climatology?  Both of these integrated subjects rely on data ie. pressure, density, temperature, water vapour etc.  that occur in a very "fluid" (chaotic) atmosphere.  For most of the history of meteorology this data has come via the eyeball of the observer.  And I know for sure that this information has NOT always been that accurate. It is this information that present day scientists include in there super-computer models. Modern day AWS's are providing much more accurate data than in the past but still lack a good "eyeball".  There have, and still will be, many theories on weather and climate.

THEORY: a noun meaning supposition explaining something. The sphere of speculative thought. From the Greek word meaning THEORIA meaning behold, contemplate.

I thought Guy's assesment was pretty good.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sat Jul 05 18:09:58 -0700 2008
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You got me all wrong. "With links to some real science" was disparaging of New Scientist, not GuyFawkes.

Although, yes, I do think that he is "wrong" about climate change.

Btw, I love "meteorology".

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sat Jul 05 18:12:10 -0700 2008
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The Met Office has many good "eyeballs", some of the most effective are space based - either geostationary, or polar orbiting. These have resulted in a step change in meteorology - Guy's view that people could look and extrapolate from pressure charts is so out of touch with the realities of modern weather forecasting it doesn't deserve further comment.

Most sciences are imperfect (especially quantum mechanics - hence the famous Feynman quotation). The methods of validating weather forecasts are however good old fashioned statistical methods, and they show a relatively steady and profound improvement in weather forecasting quality over Guy's life time, both through better observation and better modelling. Ultimately scientific theories are judged by their ability to explain, and predict, and in that sense the meteorologists have a very clear idea which theories are better than others, since the quality of operational weather forecasts are routinely compared and scrutinised in tedious detail, because it pays big dividends to know which models are better at hurricane tracks, and which are better at frost forecasts for the Brazilian coffee growers.

Much as I think climate change is observable in the UK, be assured that dust from the Sahara does still routinely fall on my car, and need washing off (although this last step happens on a rarer and rarer basis, that is more to do with my dedication to keeping the car clean than any effect of the climate); which is about as close as I get to Meteorology these days.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/7206972.stm

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sat Jul 05 19:53:48 -0700 2008
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Space based "eyeballs" although of great assistance to the forecaster or climatologist are still "a long way away from the action". Especially for forecasters. They provide the ability for a quicker analysis of the "surface situation" but that analysis is still required and depends a lot on the knowledge and expertise of the man with "two eyeballs" as to a successful forecast or climatological weather prediction. (prediction is often referred to as an "educated guess.")

Frost forecasts are reasonably simple.  Hurricane tracks are difficult because the storms at times seem to "have a mind of their own" and determining their exact future path takes a lot of skill by the forecaster and a lot of luck.

I have doubts about just how good "weather/climate modelling" actually is but today's scientists appear to stake their reputations on their accuracy in these days of "climate change" predictions.  I guess the secret is to choose the "best model" from the many and keep your "fingers crossed" and keyboard at the ready.

The subject of "weather" is still probably the most talked about subject on the planet today as it was 100 years ago and still has many questions unanswered.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sun Jul 06 08:08:26 -0700 2008
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> Hurricane tracks are difficult because the storms at times seem to "have a mind of their own" and determining their exact future path takes a lot of skill by the forecaster and a lot of luck.

It is not unusual for the dynamic forecast models to outperform the NHC official forecasts in terms of forecast skill.

I believe in 2007 for the Atlantic basin, the UK Met Office model outperformed the NHC official forecasts at all forecast periods in terms of Hurricane track error. Note that during that period the NHC would have had the UK Met Office model guidance, so the forecasters at the NHC were taking a model that was out performing them, and removing value. So the value add of the human is not always clear cut in this area. Of course the NHC would have had contradictory data from other models, so it isn't a simple case of removing value from one numerical model. 2008 has been less successful for the UK Met Office as regards Hurricane tracks compared to the NHC in the Atlantic basin.

But if you were asked to pay for a hurricane track forecast would you be racing to pay extra for more expertise if it wasn't reliably better than the print out from a general purpose weather forecast model? The NHC have been worse in this forecast than the UK Met Office in previous years - I was working at the UK Met Office the first year their global model forecast Atlantic hurricane tracks better than the NHC - it was an occaison my colleague who was (and still is) their tropical cyclone expert took great pride in, not least it saved lives. Although there was still human input back then because we didn't have software to maximize the extraction of useful information from satellite imagery - so there were still humans picking out the eyes of hurricane from satellite photos and other data, and telling the computer that it had them in the wrong place at the start of the forecast.

Forecasters can still add value in this area (most years!) but a lot of that value is being added by comparing numerical models, and understanding their biases, not by some mystical human insight.

My experience of Meteorology is the people in the process often detract value from the automated products, but that humans like to have them in the loop for irrational reasons - even serious scientific institutions can demonstrate unfounded distrust of machines. "Forecasters" are often interpreting the output of numerical models for people who don't know how to interpret the data, which is a very worthwhile skill, but it has nothing to do with the forecasting step.

One of my contributions to UK Meteorology was to help emphasise that forecasters were already worse at identifying erroneous weather observations than the computerised quality control systems - even when those forecasters were shown the computerised quality control decisions in advance. So "skilled" human forecasters couldn't even assess ground truth at the start of a forecast as well as the computers could, and that was 13 years ago, the computers are a lot better now (it was very clear then that software quality was going to be a big issue for improving both weather and climate forecasting, as well as extracting weather information from rapidly changing sources of satellite, and other novel automated observing systems).

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sun Jul 06 09:05:02 -0700 2008
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You actually make an extremely valid point.

That point is that the Met office essentially exists as a commercial venture selling long range prediction data all over the planet, the UK weather forecast that I will get from the BBC website for my region isn't even an afterthought in terms of comparable importance.

If I was planning next years crops on a few thousand acres and had the money to pay for their services I'd have quite a different attitude towards their output.

However, however good they are at projecting next years hurricanes, the fact is that watching berries come out and plants flower gives me better data about long term climate change from the human perspective than the met office can give me.

The met office are after all only "detectives", not perpetrators, despite some of the email they get, they do not make the weather, nor are they responsible for it.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sun Jul 06 10:24:27 -0700 2008
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The BBC was a significant customer when I worked for the Met Office, but not on the same scale as say ICAO, the MOD, or the Dept of the Environment. So in that sense the BBC was a commercial customer, just like those who buy coffee futures, and people who relay cables after Hurricanes were commercial customers. The BBC probably received more attention than the payments it made would usually warrant because it is so important to the public perception of the organisations work. I don't and can't speak of how things may have changed since I worked there.

The Met Office will supply you will historical records of temperature where they exist. Several stations (such a St Mawgan) are on their website.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/

You can load them into a spreadsheet and figure out if your dad was right. I suspect you'll discover that the period around World War II was slightly unusual in historical terms - dangers of relying on personal observations. They have an enquiry line if you want more information about records available or services.

They have links on their front page an explanation of how they expect climate change to affect local weather - basically a LOT(!) drier for the South West of England - although most of the climate scientists I knew there hoped (passionately) people will wake up and do something before we get to that sort of dramatic change in climate.

Their Climate projections are available through their website, via the UK Climate Impacts Website www.ukcip.org.uk, and even in Google Earth(!). Related dated is available from the CRU at the UEA, and DEFRA, amongst other places. Their (Hadley Centre) climate research is also included in the IGPCC reports.

As regards personal expectation of climate change, they simply don't know. Even if the models are reasonably accurate in terms of geographic changes in temperature and rainfall, and everyone accepts it isn't a precise science, what this means for individual people is way beyond anything they could hope to model.

My own uninformed view is that the big International problems with start mostly in Asia, with the loss of melt water as a source of drinking water, how people and governments their react to these issues will likely set the stage for what happens next. The big problems have already started in subsaharan Africa, but the problem areas are so riven with other issues no one is commenting on the climates contribution.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sun Jul 06 10:33:42 -0700 2008
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They have links on their front page an explanation of how they expect climate change to affect local weather - basically a LOT(!) drier for the South West of England

Well it is still raining here as I type, and it has been a LOT(!) wetter for the south west than I remember in my lifetime.

Look at the records for devon,


Climate change, the human perspective.
Sun Jul 06 11:01:43 -0700 2008
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Urm - isn't that like one guys home weather station?

And yes recently (since early 60's I think) the South West has got slightly wetter.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Sun Jul 06 18:12:01 -0700 2008
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Agree....especially your last two paragraphs are spot on.

Climate change, the human perspective.
Mon Jul 07 11:21:38 -0700 2008
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Both of these, to be practical, require the imposition of order, in other words a PLAN, upon a chaotic system, and yet our actual capabilities at this time are that mankind is itself a chaotic system, and so if we are to even hope to address "man made climate change" we must first, by definition, take absolute control of mankind himself.

This isn't hegemony on a global scale, it is more like empire on a global scale.

Someone, or some thing (eg a computer) will have to be Emperor, with an end to all political and social freedoms and choices, which includes all monetary and business freedoms too.

Something I heard recently:  Socialism is about giving up freedom to create order, Capitalism is about giving up order to create freedom.

So yes, you're absolutely right- and the free market will NEVER be able to fix the pollution problem, for the mere problem that it is FREE.